Home » Language IDEs » ServerTools (WTP) » Relationship between MyEclipse and the Web Tools Project
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| Re: Relationship between MyEclipse and the Web Tools Project [message #3972 is a reply to message #3966] |
Wed, 18 June 2003 18:40   |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: mail.phase.ws
So, basically that means that this will essentially be MyEclipse with
yestereday's functionality?
"Todd Williams" <todd@genuitec.com> wrote in message
news:bcqkl5$i2t$1@rogue.oti.com...
> Deep within the "Eclipse BoF summary (JavaOne) / questions" thread on this
> newsgroup, a poster named Kevin asked the following question regarding the
> Web Tools Project (WTP):
>
>
>
> >Does any of this have to do with the whole
>
> >myeclipseide.net thing? They seem
> >to be doing the same thing, putting together
>
> >various tools plugins like this, such as the
>
> >EASIE j2ee plugin, jsp/web page tools, etc.
>
> >For $29 a year, that isn't all that bad, but I am
>
> >curious if the web tools is similar, part of it, etc?"
>
>
>
> Since I've answered similar questions a few times, I've decided it's now a
> FAQ (at least for me) so I'm posting a general response here so that it
will
> be part of the public record and easily available to anyone that is
> interested in the topic.
>
>
>
> To set the context of my reply, my name is Todd Williams and I'm the VP of
> Technology at Genuitec, LLC. Genuitec is the primary driving force behind
> the MyEclipse initiative (http://www.myeclipseide.com) and the author of
the
> EASIE plugins, both mentioned in Kevin's question. In addition, Genuitec
is
> also a member of the Eclipse consortium and I'm our representative on the
> Eclipse Board of Stewards. Therefore, the comments here can be considered
> to be the official position on the relationship between MyEclipse,
Genuitec,
> and the WTP.
>
>
>
> First, Genuitec will be participating in the WTP, primarily in the areas
of
> the J2EE project model, Universal Server Tooling (UST), and server
> deployment. UST is actually a capability we've been lobbying for
inclusion
> into Eclipse for about a year now. We are excited that we can now help
> address these areas through the WTP. I've already had several in-depth
> discussions with our PMC lead, John Wiegand, to discuss the project's
needs.
> In an effort to bootstrap the interest in these core capabilities,
Genuitec
> will produce a high-level document that outlines our recommended approach
in
> these areas; based on the experience we gained developing the MyEclipse
> Enterprise Workbench and integrating all brands of application servers
into
> Eclipse.
>
>
>
> So what's MyEclipse and how is it related to the WTP?
>
>
>
> MyEclipse was conceived in October 2002 because we recognized that the
> market needed an inexpensive, simple, supported way to use Eclipse for
J2EE
> development. Until MyEclipse came along, many developers were attempting
to
> cobble together a workable J2EE IDE from Eclipse and the literally
hundreds
> of individual plugins that were available. Productivity losses while
using
> Eclipse were already a concern for development managers as their
developers'
> constantly evaluated the latest plugins, worked around reliability issues,
> and struggled to manage functional overlap and conflicts between plugins.
> It wasn't unusual for developers to maintain several instances of Eclipse
to
> help them deal with these challenges. In a nutshell, MyEclipse solves
this
> problem by assimilating the unique capabilities contributed by our member
> companies, and the best of the open source efforts, to create a cohesive
> J2EE IDE that double-click installs as a product extension to the latest
> Eclipse release build.
>
>
>
> In summary, we're expecting a synergistic relationship between the WTP,
> Genuitec, and MyEclipse. Genuitec will contribute to the WTP in an effort
> to ensure that it becomes another high quality source of web tooling
> infrastructure. The MyEclipse team's mission is to integrate, extend,
> enhance, and productize useful J2EE capabilities as soon as they become
> available, either in external open source projects or within the WTP, well
> before any of these features are finally rolled into Eclipse itself. As a
> result of this relationship, the WTP will benefit from Genuitec's
experience
> in the J2EE tooling space while MyEclipse's customers will continue to
> receive the very latest in reliable, supported, and inexpensive J2EE
> development capabilities built on Eclipse technology.
>
>
>
> Todd Williams
>
> Genuitec, LLC
>
>
>
>
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| Re: Relationship between MyEclipse and the Web Tools Project [message #3978 is a reply to message #3972] |
Wed, 18 June 2003 18:51 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: mail.phase.ws
A few more questions...
As the webtools project develops will MyEclipse be incorporating code
contributed to webtools into their own product (MyEclipse)? Also, how do you
plan to deal with inevitable incompatibilities that arise in functionality
between your product and the webtools project? If a contributor supplies a
better widget will yours take priority because it is more compatible with
the MyEclipse product? I just see a real danger here when two projects try
to develop the same functionality in two places and converge them.
Meanwhile, one is claiming to be creating "cutting edge" components to add
to the webtools project. I always get nervous about opensource projects with
corporate ties. Can you dispell this concern?
Thanks
Brandon
"Brandon Goodin" <mail@phase.ws> wrote in message
news:bcqpf2$l87$1@rogue.oti.com...
> So, basically that means that this will essentially be MyEclipse with
> yestereday's functionality?
>
> "Todd Williams" <todd@genuitec.com> wrote in message
> news:bcqkl5$i2t$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > Deep within the "Eclipse BoF summary (JavaOne) / questions" thread on
this
> > newsgroup, a poster named Kevin asked the following question regarding
the
> > Web Tools Project (WTP):
> >
> >
> >
> > >Does any of this have to do with the whole
> >
> > >myeclipseide.net thing? They seem
> > >to be doing the same thing, putting together
> >
> > >various tools plugins like this, such as the
> >
> > >EASIE j2ee plugin, jsp/web page tools, etc.
> >
> > >For $29 a year, that isn't all that bad, but I am
> >
> > >curious if the web tools is similar, part of it, etc?"
> >
> >
> >
> > Since I've answered similar questions a few times, I've decided it's now
a
> > FAQ (at least for me) so I'm posting a general response here so that it
> will
> > be part of the public record and easily available to anyone that is
> > interested in the topic.
> >
> >
> >
> > To set the context of my reply, my name is Todd Williams and I'm the VP
of
> > Technology at Genuitec, LLC. Genuitec is the primary driving force
behind
> > the MyEclipse initiative (http://www.myeclipseide.com) and the author of
> the
> > EASIE plugins, both mentioned in Kevin's question. In addition,
Genuitec
> is
> > also a member of the Eclipse consortium and I'm our representative on
the
> > Eclipse Board of Stewards. Therefore, the comments here can be
considered
> > to be the official position on the relationship between MyEclipse,
> Genuitec,
> > and the WTP.
> >
> >
> >
> > First, Genuitec will be participating in the WTP, primarily in the areas
> of
> > the J2EE project model, Universal Server Tooling (UST), and server
> > deployment. UST is actually a capability we've been lobbying for
> inclusion
> > into Eclipse for about a year now. We are excited that we can now help
> > address these areas through the WTP. I've already had several in-depth
> > discussions with our PMC lead, John Wiegand, to discuss the project's
> needs.
> > In an effort to bootstrap the interest in these core capabilities,
> Genuitec
> > will produce a high-level document that outlines our recommended
approach
> in
> > these areas; based on the experience we gained developing the MyEclipse
> > Enterprise Workbench and integrating all brands of application servers
> into
> > Eclipse.
> >
> >
> >
> > So what's MyEclipse and how is it related to the WTP?
> >
> >
> >
> > MyEclipse was conceived in October 2002 because we recognized that the
> > market needed an inexpensive, simple, supported way to use Eclipse for
> J2EE
> > development. Until MyEclipse came along, many developers were
attempting
> to
> > cobble together a workable J2EE IDE from Eclipse and the literally
> hundreds
> > of individual plugins that were available. Productivity losses while
> using
> > Eclipse were already a concern for development managers as their
> developers'
> > constantly evaluated the latest plugins, worked around reliability
issues,
> > and struggled to manage functional overlap and conflicts between
plugins.
> > It wasn't unusual for developers to maintain several instances of
Eclipse
> to
> > help them deal with these challenges. In a nutshell, MyEclipse solves
> this
> > problem by assimilating the unique capabilities contributed by our
member
> > companies, and the best of the open source efforts, to create a cohesive
> > J2EE IDE that double-click installs as a product extension to the latest
> > Eclipse release build.
> >
> >
> >
> > In summary, we're expecting a synergistic relationship between the WTP,
> > Genuitec, and MyEclipse. Genuitec will contribute to the WTP in an
effort
> > to ensure that it becomes another high quality source of web tooling
> > infrastructure. The MyEclipse team's mission is to integrate, extend,
> > enhance, and productize useful J2EE capabilities as soon as they become
> > available, either in external open source projects or within the WTP,
well
> > before any of these features are finally rolled into Eclipse itself. As
a
> > result of this relationship, the WTP will benefit from Genuitec's
> experience
> > in the J2EE tooling space while MyEclipse's customers will continue to
> > receive the very latest in reliable, supported, and inexpensive J2EE
> > development capabilities built on Eclipse technology.
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd Williams
> >
> > Genuitec, LLC
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Relationship between MyEclipse and the Web Tools Project [message #3984 is a reply to message #3978] |
Wed, 18 June 2003 19:31 |
| Eclipse User |
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|
|
Brandon,
Good questions!
> As the webtools project develops will MyEclipse be incorporating code
> contributed to webtools into their own product (MyEclipse)?
Absolutely. We will always build or assimilate the best capabilities
available as quickly as possible. Currently, MyEclipse Enterprise Workbench
is about 75% custom content and 25% integrated open source. The mix will
change over time and Web Tools will be another open source venue into which
we will push and out of which we will pull, as needed.
> Also, how do you plan to deal with inevitable incompatibilities
> that arise in functionality between your product and the webtools project?
On a case by case basis. We plan on converting our low-level tooling to
that which is agreed upon and built within the Web Tools project. There can
be only one "platform" and we will work toward ensuring that Web Tools has a
very good one, as I stated in my original post.
> If a contributor supplies a better widget will yours take priority
> because it is more compatible with the MyEclipse product?
In an apples to apples comparison, no; we would replace our "widget" with
the best one and then build on top of it, quickly. That is the strength of
our best of breed "build or integrate" model. We plan on moving products in
and out of MyEclipse all the time so that we always have the most complete
and capable toolset available.
> I just see a real danger here when two projects try
> to develop the same functionality in two places and converge them.
With respect to our involvement, we won't be developing the same
functionality in two places. The areas we'll be working on within Web
Tools, we'll only be working on within Web Tools. The only convergence will
come when the new server tooling is nearing completion and we have to
migrate MyEclipse to ride on top of it. But that's really just another
integration issue for us internally.
> Meanwhile, one is claiming to be creating "cutting edge" components to add
> to the webtools project.
Actually, I don't believe I used the term "cutting edge" and I didn't talk
about contributing any components to the project. What I said was that we
will try to get the ball rolling by taking a leadership position in the
areas where we have both interest and deep experience. We won't be
contributing any existing code, however, simply because we believe that with
the participation of the Eclipse community we can collectively create a much
better infrastructure than any one company, including mine, has had the time
or talent to build.
> I always get nervous about opensource projects with
> corporate ties. Can you dispell this concern?
If you're worried about corporate ties in open source then you should
immediately run away from Eclipse.org. ;-) Seriously thoug, there is no
open source project with wider or deeper corporate involvement. Please take
a good look at the full list of "corporate ties" that run this show we all
have grown to love (http://www.eclipse.org/org/index.html). While you'll
see that we're definately on the list, so are about 40 other companies. You
must remember that Eclipse.org is a project that is staffed and funded by
those 40+ companies and all of them use the technology built here, in some
way, toward their commercial interests. Only if Eclipse is commercially
successful will these companies continue to fund and staff the open source
projects; the relationship is synergistic. Remember, there are other, much
more expensive, Eclipse-based commercial IDEs that have been built and sold
by IBM, Rational, Borland, TogetherSoft, SAP, HP, QNX, and a host of others.
We're basically doing the same thing, but are willing to do our part for the
community at large by keeping our product costs low and by contributing
something back to the open source projects.
Regards,
Todd
"Brandon Goodin" <mail@phase.ws> wrote in message
news:bcqq3b$lj9$1@rogue.oti.com...
> A few more questions...
>
> As the webtools project develops will MyEclipse be incorporating code
> contributed to webtools into their own product (MyEclipse)? Also, how do
you
> plan to deal with inevitable incompatibilities that arise in functionality
> between your product and the webtools project? If a contributor supplies a
> better widget will yours take priority because it is more compatible with
> the MyEclipse product? I just see a real danger here when two projects try
> to develop the same functionality in two places and converge them.
> Meanwhile, one is claiming to be creating "cutting edge" components to add
> to the webtools project. I always get nervous about opensource projects
with
> corporate ties. Can you dispell this concern?
>
> Thanks
> Brandon
>
> "Brandon Goodin" <mail@phase.ws> wrote in message
> news:bcqpf2$l87$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > So, basically that means that this will essentially be MyEclipse with
> > yestereday's functionality?
> >
> > "Todd Williams" <todd@genuitec.com> wrote in message
> > news:bcqkl5$i2t$1@rogue.oti.com...
> > > Deep within the "Eclipse BoF summary (JavaOne) / questions" thread on
> this
> > > newsgroup, a poster named Kevin asked the following question regarding
> the
> > > Web Tools Project (WTP):
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Does any of this have to do with the whole
> > >
> > > >myeclipseide.net thing? They seem
> > > >to be doing the same thing, putting together
> > >
> > > >various tools plugins like this, such as the
> > >
> > > >EASIE j2ee plugin, jsp/web page tools, etc.
> > >
> > > >For $29 a year, that isn't all that bad, but I am
> > >
> > > >curious if the web tools is similar, part of it, etc?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Since I've answered similar questions a few times, I've decided it's
now
> a
> > > FAQ (at least for me) so I'm posting a general response here so that
it
> > will
> > > be part of the public record and easily available to anyone that is
> > > interested in the topic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To set the context of my reply, my name is Todd Williams and I'm the
VP
> of
> > > Technology at Genuitec, LLC. Genuitec is the primary driving force
> behind
> > > the MyEclipse initiative (http://www.myeclipseide.com) and the author
of
> > the
> > > EASIE plugins, both mentioned in Kevin's question. In addition,
> Genuitec
> > is
> > > also a member of the Eclipse consortium and I'm our representative on
> the
> > > Eclipse Board of Stewards. Therefore, the comments here can be
> considered
> > > to be the official position on the relationship between MyEclipse,
> > Genuitec,
> > > and the WTP.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > First, Genuitec will be participating in the WTP, primarily in the
areas
> > of
> > > the J2EE project model, Universal Server Tooling (UST), and server
> > > deployment. UST is actually a capability we've been lobbying for
> > inclusion
> > > into Eclipse for about a year now. We are excited that we can now
help
> > > address these areas through the WTP. I've already had several
in-depth
> > > discussions with our PMC lead, John Wiegand, to discuss the project's
> > needs.
> > > In an effort to bootstrap the interest in these core capabilities,
> > Genuitec
> > > will produce a high-level document that outlines our recommended
> approach
> > in
> > > these areas; based on the experience we gained developing the
MyEclipse
> > > Enterprise Workbench and integrating all brands of application servers
> > into
> > > Eclipse.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So what's MyEclipse and how is it related to the WTP?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > MyEclipse was conceived in October 2002 because we recognized that the
> > > market needed an inexpensive, simple, supported way to use Eclipse for
> > J2EE
> > > development. Until MyEclipse came along, many developers were
> attempting
> > to
> > > cobble together a workable J2EE IDE from Eclipse and the literally
> > hundreds
> > > of individual plugins that were available. Productivity losses while
> > using
> > > Eclipse were already a concern for development managers as their
> > developers'
> > > constantly evaluated the latest plugins, worked around reliability
> issues,
> > > and struggled to manage functional overlap and conflicts between
> plugins.
> > > It wasn't unusual for developers to maintain several instances of
> Eclipse
> > to
> > > help them deal with these challenges. In a nutshell, MyEclipse solves
> > this
> > > problem by assimilating the unique capabilities contributed by our
> member
> > > companies, and the best of the open source efforts, to create a
cohesive
> > > J2EE IDE that double-click installs as a product extension to the
latest
> > > Eclipse release build.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In summary, we're expecting a synergistic relationship between the
WTP,
> > > Genuitec, and MyEclipse. Genuitec will contribute to the WTP in an
> effort
> > > to ensure that it becomes another high quality source of web tooling
> > > infrastructure. The MyEclipse team's mission is to integrate, extend,
> > > enhance, and productize useful J2EE capabilities as soon as they
become
> > > available, either in external open source projects or within the WTP,
> well
> > > before any of these features are finally rolled into Eclipse itself.
As
> a
> > > result of this relationship, the WTP will benefit from Genuitec's
> > experience
> > > in the J2EE tooling space while MyEclipse's customers will continue to
> > > receive the very latest in reliable, supported, and inexpensive J2EE
> > > development capabilities built on Eclipse technology.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Todd Williams
> > >
> > > Genuitec, LLC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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