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variability - who uses it [message #44669]

Fri, 19 October 2007 03:48

Eclipse User

Hi

I'm interested in knowing how often the 'variability' functionality in
EPF is used.
I'm knew to EPF, have never worked with RMC, and I find the
possibilities interesting but somehow complicating.

So,
can I get by without using variability ?
I'm I stupid not to use it from the start ?
Can I revert to using it later ?
will I regret not using it ?
will I regret using it ?

I'm working on complete knew content (not based on methods available
like OpenUp...)

All comments/guidance greatly appreciated

Danny

Re: variability - who uses it [message #44702 is a reply to message #44669]

Fri, 19 October 2007 04:11

Eclipse User

why I wrote 'knew' in stead of 'new' ? - I don't know ;)

danny wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm interested in knowing how often the 'variability' functionality in
> EPF is used.
> I'm knew to EPF, have never worked with RMC, and I find the
> possibilities interesting but somehow complicating.
>
> So,
> can I get by without using variability ?
> I'm I stupid not to use it from the start ?
> Can I revert to using it later ?
> will I regret not using it ?
> will I regret using it ?
>
> I'm working on complete knew content (not based on methods available
> like OpenUp...)
>
> All comments/guidance greatly appreciated
>
> Danny
>
>

Re: variability - who uses it [message #45117 is a reply to message #44669]

Mon, 29 October 2007 20:13

Eclipse User

Danny,

It's hard to give a quantitative answer to your question with regards to how
often one uses variability, but I'd say you want to take advantage of using
variability for various reasons.

For example, if you are creating a process based OpenUP (as opposed to
out-of-the-box use of OpenUP), you want to create your own plug-ins with
your own elements that extend or contribute to the OpenUP elements, instead
of modifying OpenUP content directly. It's not only recommended in terms of
maintenance (new versions of OpenUP that you install wouldn't override your
changes), but also recommended in terms of Eclipse Public License
(extensions to open source content or code are expected to be done using
plug-ins).

Even if you don't extend an existing process such as OpenUP, but are
creating a process from scratch, you may face a need for creating common
elements that your organization uses, then customizing the process on a
per-kind-of-project or per-department basis, by creating extensions to that
organizational process.

These are some motivators for using variability. You may find it a powerful
mechanism to give you flexibility and scalability in defining your
processes.

Regards,

Ricardo.

"danny" <danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be> wrote in message
news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi
>
> I'm interested in knowing how often the 'variability' functionality in EPF
> is used.
> I'm knew to EPF, have never worked with RMC, and I find the possibilities
> interesting but somehow complicating.
>
> So,
> can I get by without using variability ?
> I'm I stupid not to use it from the start ?
> Can I revert to using it later ?
> will I regret not using it ?
> will I regret using it ?
>
> I'm working on complete knew content (not based on methods available like
> OpenUp...)
>
> All comments/guidance greatly appreciated
>
> Danny
>
>

Re: variability - who uses it [message #45237 is a reply to message #45117]

Thu, 01 November 2007 15:25

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: kamal.osellus.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C81C9B.61B21AF0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ricardo

=20

I am in complete agreement with you in recognizing the need to have =
extension mechanisms for processes. From my perspective the days of a =
process savior or process guru authoring magic bullet processes are =
over. All we have are best practices and data on past process models =
that worked under a specific project environment. They obviously need to =
be modified for use unless there are identical process enactment =
conditions.=20

=20

My concern is with the overblown variability mechanism one is expected =
to use to realize this objective. Danny has raised a question that =
remains unanswered. I would really like to hear from those who have =
been using variability in a real project. I am not really interested in =
theoretical or academic proof of concepts that are not tempered with the =
realities the pressures and priorities of practical implementation. =
Hopefully that can start some deeper analysis and discussions on the fit =
for use of variability mechanisms. Unless that discussion is off the =
table !

=20

Kamal

--------------------------------------------

Kamal Ahluwalia

Lead Solution Specialist

Osellus Inc.

750-144 Front Street West

Toronto, Ontario M5J 3L7 CANADA

Tel: +1 (416) 603-6667 Ext 5063

Email: kamal@osellus.com

Blog: http://www.osellus.com/blogs/author/kamal

----------------------------------------------

"Ricardo Balduino" <balduino@us.ibm.com> wrote in message =
news:fg5t0b$2tg$1@build.eclipse.org...
Danny,

It's hard to give a quantitative answer to your question with regards =
to how=20
often one uses variability, but I'd say you want to take advantage of =
using=20
variability for various reasons.

For example, if you are creating a process based OpenUP (as opposed to =

out-of-the-box use of OpenUP), you want to create your own plug-ins =
with=20
your own elements that extend or contribute to the OpenUP elements, =
instead=20
of modifying OpenUP content directly. It's not only recommended in =
terms of=20
maintenance (new versions of OpenUP that you install wouldn't override =
your=20
changes), but also recommended in terms of Eclipse Public License=20
(extensions to open source content or code are expected to be done =
using=20
plug-ins).

Even if you don't extend an existing process such as OpenUP, but are=20
creating a process from scratch, you may face a need for creating =
common=20
elements that your organization uses, then customizing the process on =
a=20
per-kind-of-project or per-department basis, by creating extensions to =
that=20
organizational process.

These are some motivators for using variability. You may find it a =
powerful=20
mechanism to give you flexibility and scalability in defining your=20
processes.

Regards,

Ricardo.

"danny" <danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be> wrote in message=20
news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi
>
> I'm interested in knowing how often the 'variability' functionality =
in EPF=20
> is used.
> I'm knew to EPF, have never worked with RMC, and I find the =
possibilities=20
> interesting but somehow complicating.
>
> So,
> can I get by without using variability ?
> I'm I stupid not to use it from the start ?
> Can I revert to using it later ?
> will I regret not using it ?
> will I regret using it ?
>
> I'm working on complete knew content (not based on methods available =
like=20
> OpenUp...)
>
> All comments/guidance greatly appreciated
>
> Danny
>
>=20

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C81C9B.61B21AF0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<DIV>
Ricardo
<?xml:namespace =
prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
I am in complete =
agreement with=20
you in recognizing the need to have extension mechanisms for=20
processes. From my perspective the days of a process savior or process =
guru=20
authoring magic bullet processes are over. All we have are best =
practices and=20
data on past process models that worked under a specific project =
environment.=20
They obviously need to be modified for use unless there are identical =
process=20
enactment conditions. 
<o:p> </o:p>
My concern is with =
the overblown=20
variability mechanism one is expected to use to realize this objective. =
Danny=20
has raised a question that remains unanswered. I would really  like =
to hear=20
from those who have been using variability in a real project. I am not =
really=20
interested in theoretical or academic proof of concepts that are not =
tempered=20
with the realities the pressures and priorities of practical =
implementation.=20
Hopefully that can start some deeper analysis and discussions on the fit =
for use=20
of variability mechanisms. Unless that discussion is off the table !
<o:p> </o:p>
Kamal
 

<FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US"><o:p></o:p><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>
-------------------------------------------- <SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US"><o:p></o:p>
Kamal=20
Ahluwalia<o:p></o:p>
Lead=20
Solution Specialist<o:p></o:p>
Osellus=20
Inc.<o:p></o:p>
750-144=20
Front Street West<o:p></o:p>
Toronto,=20
Ontario M5J 3L7  CANADA<o:p></o:p>
Tel:=20
+1 (416) 603-6667 Ext 5063<o:p></o:p>
Email:=20
<FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff>kamal@osellus.com<o:p></o:p>
Blog:=20
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-field-code: ' HYPERLINK ''\o =
ȫlocked::http://www.osellus.com/blogs/author/kamal''"><SPAN=20
class=3DMsoHyperlink>http://www.osellus.com/blogs/author/kamal</SP=
AN><o:p></o:p>
----------------------------------------------<SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p></o:p>
 </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ricardo Balduino" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:balduino@us.ibm.com">balduino@us.ibm.com</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:fg5t0b$2tg$1@build.eclipse.org">news:fg5t0b$2tg$1@build.ecli=
pse.org</A>...</DIV>Danny, It's=20
hard to give a quantitative answer to your question with regards to =
how=20
 often one uses variability, but I'd say you want to take advantage =
of=20
using variability for various reasons. For example, if you =
are=20
creating a process based OpenUP (as opposed to out-of-the-box use =
of=20
OpenUP), you want to create your own plug-ins with your own =
elements that=20
extend or contribute to the OpenUP elements, instead of modifying =
OpenUP=20
content directly. It's not only recommended in terms of =
 maintenance (new=20
versions of OpenUP that you install wouldn't override your =
 changes), but=20
also recommended in terms of Eclipse Public License (extensions to =
open=20
source content or code are expected to be done using=20
 plug-ins). Even if you don't extend an existing process =
such as=20
OpenUP, but are creating a process from scratch, you may face a =
need for=20
creating common elements that your organization uses, then =
customizing the=20
process on a per-kind-of-project or per-department basis, by =
creating=20
extensions to that organizational process. These are some=20
motivators for using variability. You may find it a powerful =
 mechanism to=20
give you flexibility and scalability in defining your=20
 processes. Regards, Ricardo. "danny" =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be">danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.eclipse.org">news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.ecli=
pse.org</A>... >=20
Hi > > I'm interested in knowing how often the =
'variability'=20
functionality in EPF > is used. > I'm knew to EPF, have =
never=20
worked with RMC, and I find the possibilities > interesting but =
somehow=20
complicating. > > So, > can I get by without using=20
variability ? > I'm I stupid not to use it from the start =
? > Can=20
I revert to using it later ? > will I regret not using it =
? > will=20
I regret using it ? > > I'm working on complete knew =
content (not=20
based on methods available like > OpenUp...) > > =
All=20
comments/guidance greatly appreciated > > =
Danny > >=20
 </BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C81C9B.61B21AF0--

Re: variability - who uses it [message #45774 is a reply to message #45237]

Mon, 12 November 2007 12:27

Eclipse User

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C8250E.46D1BEE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kamal, thanks for your comments.

I want to clarify that my answer to Danny is not theoretical. I =
exemplified my point with two of the many possible scenarios where one =
wants to use variability.
We don't have the hard data to say X% of projects use variability in Y% =
of elements - those users who want to kindly provide those numbers are =
free to send us some insights in this list though.=20
You may want to take a look at OpenUP content where we use variability, =
for example, to factor out visual modeling guidance. Or take a look at =
the DSDM content also available as open-source, which extends OpenUP to =
add a few more roles, tasks and artifacts. Or the recently contributed =
content on Business Rules (will be available for download soon), which =
adds guidance on top of OpenUP. Both examples use some sort variability =
to extend OpenUP content.

I'm not sure about what of Danny's questions remain unanswered, so here =
it goes:

>can I get by without using variability ?
- as I mentioned in one of my example, yes you can, if you are starting =
a process from scratch that is centered in one team's needs - or using =
an existing out-of-the-box process

> I'm I stupid not to use it from the start ?
- you are smart when you use what applies to your team's needs, not =
more, not less

> Can I revert to using it later ?
- yes, if later you find out that another team in your organization =
needs a similar process, but slightly customized, you can factor out the =
commonalities and use variability to capture the differences.

> will I regret not using it ?
> will I regret using it ?
- You may want to do this in an agile way: start with the simplest =
solution that works for your team, then as the needs arise (other teams =
need process, your team needs more guidance on a particular area, etc.) =
then you refactor (or use variability) as needed. On the other hand, if =
you are involved in an organizational effort, you may want start =
thinking about the common pieces of process that teams will need an =
factor those out up front.

Again, these are examples of real situations you may face ;-)

Regards,

Ricardo.
"Kamal Ahluwalia" <kamal@osellus.com> wrote in message =
news:fgd96m$ou7$1@build.eclipse.org...
Ricardo

=20

I am in complete agreement with you in recognizing the need to have =
extension mechanisms for processes. From my perspective the days of a =
process savior or process guru authoring magic bullet processes are =
over. All we have are best practices and data on past process models =
that worked under a specific project environment. They obviously need to =
be modified for use unless there are identical process enactment =
conditions.=20

=20

My concern is with the overblown variability mechanism one is expected =
to use to realize this objective. Danny has raised a question that =
remains unanswered. I would really like to hear from those who have =
been using variability in a real project. I am not really interested in =
theoretical or academic proof of concepts that are not tempered with the =
realities the pressures and priorities of practical implementation. =
Hopefully that can start some deeper analysis and discussions on the fit =
for use of variability mechanisms. Unless that discussion is off the =
table !

=20

Kamal

--------------------------------------------

Kamal Ahluwalia

Lead Solution Specialist

Osellus Inc.

750-144 Front Street West

Toronto, Ontario M5J 3L7 CANADA

Tel: +1 (416) 603-6667 Ext 5063

Email: kamal@osellus.com

Blog: http://www.osellus.com/blogs/author/kamal

----------------------------------------------

"Ricardo Balduino" <balduino@us.ibm.com> wrote in message =
news:fg5t0b$2tg$1@build.eclipse.org...
Danny,

It's hard to give a quantitative answer to your question with =
regards to how=20
often one uses variability, but I'd say you want to take advantage =
of using=20
variability for various reasons.

For example, if you are creating a process based OpenUP (as opposed =
to=20
out-of-the-box use of OpenUP), you want to create your own plug-ins =
with=20
your own elements that extend or contribute to the OpenUP elements, =
instead=20
of modifying OpenUP content directly. It's not only recommended in =
terms of=20
maintenance (new versions of OpenUP that you install wouldn't =
override your=20
changes), but also recommended in terms of Eclipse Public License=20
(extensions to open source content or code are expected to be done =
using=20
plug-ins).

Even if you don't extend an existing process such as OpenUP, but are =

creating a process from scratch, you may face a need for creating =
common=20
elements that your organization uses, then customizing the process =
on a=20
per-kind-of-project or per-department basis, by creating extensions =
to that=20
organizational process.

These are some motivators for using variability. You may find it a =
powerful=20
mechanism to give you flexibility and scalability in defining your=20
processes.

Regards,

Ricardo.

"danny" <danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be> wrote in message=20
news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi
>
> I'm interested in knowing how often the 'variability' =
functionality in EPF=20
> is used.
> I'm knew to EPF, have never worked with RMC, and I find the =
possibilities=20
> interesting but somehow complicating.
>
> So,
> can I get by without using variability ?
> I'm I stupid not to use it from the start ?
> Can I revert to using it later ?
> will I regret not using it ?
> will I regret using it ?
>
> I'm working on complete knew content (not based on methods =
available like=20
> OpenUp...)
>
> All comments/guidance greatly appreciated
>
> Danny
>
>=20

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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns:o =3D "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3199" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Kamal, thanks for your =
comments.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I want to clarify that my answer to =
Danny is not=20
theoretical. I exemplified my point with two of the many possible =
scenarios=20
where one wants to use variability.</DIV>
<DIV>We don't have the hard data to say X% =
of projects=20
use variability in Y% of elements - those users who want to kindly =
provide those=20
numbers are free to send us some insights in this list though. =
</DIV>
<DIV>You may want to take a look at OpenUP =
content where=20
we use variability, for example, to factor out visual modeling =
guidance. Or=20
take a look at the DSDM content also available as open-source, which =
extends=20
OpenUP to add a few more roles, tasks and artifacts. Or the recently =
contributed=20
content on Business Rules (will be available for download soon), which =
adds=20
guidance on top of OpenUP. Both examples use some sort variability to =
extend=20
OpenUP content.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure about what of Danny's =
questions=20
remain unanswered, so here it goes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>can I get by without using variability ?</DIV>
<DIV>- as I mentioned in one of my example, =
yes you can,=20
if you are starting a process from scratch that is centered in one =
team's needs=20
- or using an existing out-of-the-box process</DIV>
<DIV><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2> > I'm I stupid not to use it from =
the start=20
?</DIV>
<DIV>- you are smart when you =
use what=20
applies to your team's needs, not more, not less</DIV>
<DIV> > Can=20
I revert to using it later ?</DIV>
<DIV>- yes, if later you find out that =
another team in=20
your organization needs a similar process, but slightly customized, you =
can=20
factor out the commonalities and use variability to capture the=20
differences.</DIV>
<DIV> > will=20
I regret not using it ?</DIV>
<DIV>> will I regret using it ?</DIV>
<DIV>- You may want to do this in an agile =
way: start=20
with the simplest solution that works for your team, then as the needs =
arise=20
(other teams need process, your team needs more guidance on a particular =
area,=20
etc.) then you refactor (or use variability) as needed. On the other =
hand, if=20
you are involved in an organizational effort, you may want start =
thinking about=20
the common pieces of process that teams will need an factor those out up =

front.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Again, these are examples of real =
situations you=20
may face ;-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ricardo.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Kamal Ahluwalia" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:kamal@osellus.com">kamal@osellus.com</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:fgd96m$ou7$1@build.eclipse.org">news:fgd96m$ou7$1@build.ecli=
pse.org</A>...</DIV>
<DIV>
Ricardo
<o:p> </o:p>
I am in complete =
agreement with=20
you in recognizing the need to have extension mechanisms for =

processes. From my perspective the days of a process savior or process =
guru=20
authoring magic bullet processes are over. All we have are best =
practices and=20
data on past process models that worked under a specific project =
environment.=20
They obviously need to be modified for use unless there are identical =
process=20
enactment conditions. 
<o:p> </o:p>
My concern is with =
the=20
overblown variability mechanism one is expected to use to realize this =

objective. Danny has raised a question that remains unanswered. I =
would really=20
 like to hear from those who have been using variability in a =
real=20
project. I am not really interested in theoretical or academic proof =
of=20
concepts that are not tempered with the realities the pressures and =
priorities=20
of practical implementation. Hopefully that can start some deeper =
analysis and=20
discussions on the fit for use of variability mechanisms. Unless that=20
discussion is off the table !
<o:p> </o:p>
Kamal
 

<FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US"><o:p></o:p><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>

-------------------------------------------- <SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; mso-ansi-language: =
EN-US"><o:p></o:p>
Kamal=20
Ahluwalia<o:p></o:p>
Lead=20
Solution Specialist<o:p></o:p>
Osellus=20
Inc.<o:p></o:p>
750-144=20
Front Street West<o:p></o:p>
Toronto,=20
Ontario M5J 3L7  CANADA<o:p></o:p>
Tel:=20
+1 (416) 603-6667 Ext 5063<o:p></o:p>
Email:=20
<FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff>kamal@osellus.com<o:p></o:p>
Blog:=20
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-field-code: ' HYPERLINK ''o =
ȫlocked::http://www.osellus.com/blogs/author/kamal''"><SPAN=20
=
class=3DMsoHyperlink>http://www.osellus.com/blogs/author/kamal</SP=
AN><o:p></o:p>
----------------------------------------------<SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p></o:p>
 </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ricardo Balduino" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:balduino@us.ibm.com">balduino@us.ibm.com</A>> =
wrote in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:fg5t0b$2tg$1@build.eclipse.org">news:fg5t0b$2tg$1@build.ecli=
pse.org</A>...</DIV>Danny, It's=20
hard to give a quantitative answer to your question with regards to =
how=20
 often one uses variability, but I'd say you want to take =
advantage of=20
using variability for various reasons. For example, if =
you are=20
creating a process based OpenUP (as opposed to out-of-the-box =
use of=20
OpenUP), you want to create your own plug-ins with your own =
elements=20
that extend or contribute to the OpenUP elements, instead of =
modifying=20
OpenUP content directly. It's not only recommended in terms of=20
 maintenance (new versions of OpenUP that you install wouldn't =
override=20
your changes), but also recommended in terms of Eclipse Public =
License=20
 (extensions to open source content or code are expected to be =
done using=20
 plug-ins). Even if you don't extend an existing process =
such as=20
OpenUP, but are creating a process from scratch, you may face a =
need for=20
creating common elements that your organization uses, then =
customizing=20
the process on a per-kind-of-project or per-department basis, by =

creating extensions to that organizational process. These =
are=20
some motivators for using variability. You may find it a powerful=20
 mechanism to give you flexibility and scalability in defining =
your=20
 processes. Regards, Ricardo. "danny" =
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be">danny.foncke@smals-mvm.be</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.eclipse.org">news:ff9nh9$abp$1@build.ecli=
pse.org</A>... >=20
Hi > > I'm interested in knowing how often the =
'variability'=20
functionality in EPF > is used. > I'm knew to EPF, have =
never=20
worked with RMC, and I find the possibilities > interesting =
but=20
somehow complicating. > > So, > can I get by =
without using=20
variability ? > I'm I stupid not to use it from the start =
? >=20
Can I revert to using it later ? > will I regret not using it=20
? > will I regret using it ? > > I'm working on =
complete=20
knew content (not based on methods available like >=20
OpenUp...) > > All comments/guidance greatly=20
appreciated > > Danny > >=20
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Re: variability - who uses it [message #585182 is a reply to message #44669]

Fri, 19 October 2007 04:11

Eclipse User